How to Raise Your Freelance Writing Rates with Austin Church of Freelance Cake

How do you raise your freelance writing rates—and your confidence—at the same time?

In this powerful episode of The Talk Freelance To Me Podcast, host Ashley Cisneros Mejia welcomes writer, coach, and creator of Freelance Cake, Austin Church, to talk about his popular book Free Money — a guide for freelancers who want to stop undercharging and start building profitable, sustainable businesses.

Ashley and Austin get real about the emotional baggage many freelancers carry around pricing, how to stop treating your business like a side hustle, and why raising your rates is an act of self-respect. 

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Click here for full show notes.

Chapters

• 0:54 Meet Austin Church & learn about his journey from English major to freelancer to coach
• 3:20 How Austin Church became a freelance writer
• 5:36 Freelance writers are often quick learners
• 7:16 Why Austin Church wrote Free Money and what freelancers actually needed from him
• 8:50 Pricing isn’t just math—it’s mindset, messaging, and sustainability
• 11:32 “Your biggest money isn’t always your best money”—why effective hourly rate matters
• 15:54 Making space for thinking time (aka your secret to sustainable strategy)
• 21:43 Raising your rates when you’re afraid of losing clients
• 23:41 Are your clients aligned with your dream rate—or dragging you down?
• 26:44 How to get over fear, anticipate discomfort, and do the hard thing anyway
• 39:54 Stop undercharging: You are not an expense, you are an investment
• 42:07 Austin’s challenge: Track your rates, calculate your value, and face the truth

Transcript

Austin Church: 0:00

all. Change starts with telling the truth. Tell the truth about whether your current target audience. Is realistically gonna pay you what you want to make and then make strategic business decisions from there.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 0:17

Welcome to Talk Freelance to me, the podcast for women freelance writers, 10 99 independent contractors and solopreneurs. I'm your host, Ashley Ci SDOs Mejia. For more than 20 years, I've worked as a journalist and freelance writer. Today as a mom of three kids, I'm passionate about helping other women leverage the freedom that freelance offers on top freelance. To me, we're all about the business of freelancing. If you want to learn how to monetize your talents, make money on your own terms, and design a flexible work life that actually works for you. This show is for you.. . I'm so glad you're here because today's episode is a must listen. For every freelance writer who's ever wondered, how can I raise my rates without freaking out or losing clients? I'm joined by Austin Church, the founder of Freelance Cake. Austin is a coach and strategist who helps creatives make more money doing work they love. Austin's book, free Money is all about pricing mindset and sustainable business practices. Today we're digging into how you can stop undercharging and start treating your business. Like a business and the timing couldn't be better. Right now, Austin is hosting an amazing free event for freelance writers. It's called Growth Without Burnout Summit. And I'm a speaker too. The summit runs May 6th through May 9th, 2025, and it's completely free to attend. You'll hear from 24 speakers, including me, on how to grow your business without sacrificing your sanity. There will be live sessions, practical talks in a super supportive freelance community. If you wanna grab your free ticket and maybe even upgrade to the VIP pass for over $3,700 in bonuses and templates, head over to my special link. It's bit Lee. Slash Grow freelancer. Again, that's bit Lee slash Grow Freelancer. When you use my special link, you could save big on that VIP pass. Alright, let's jump into the episode and talk money, pricing, power, and doing more high impact work with Austin Church.. Hi Austin. How are you today?

Austin Church: 2:46

I'm great. Thank you so much for having me. I've been looking forward to this.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 2:50

Absolutely. Me too. And you have done so many different things. Of course. I was looking at your bio, and I know you've done a lot of business and tech startups and mobile apps. You've had agencies before. Of course, you've done this freelance work for a long time and you are even helping other freelancers in our community through freelance cake and other offerings that you have. So what initially drew you to freelancing and how has your. Unique background influence what you do today?

Austin Church: 3:20

Great question. So I would say nothing drew me to freelancing. I got pushed forcibly out of the nine to five Nest in April of 2009. So I had a job at a marketing agency on a Friday and my boss called me in and said, you no longer have a job at this agency. And I can laugh about it now, but I will say. The following Monday, which is when my freelance journey officially began, I kinda realized, oh, like I really prefer this way of working. So that's where it all began for me. And in terms of my background, I was an English major twice over. And so writing was a natural entry point or doorway for me when it came to freelance stuff, and that was my foot in. And then I surprised myself with being fairly capable with the project management side of things. I never considered myself a detailed person or even all that organized, but I did care enough about my clients and. Like positive outcomes that I was, I just learned to stay on top of things and so. One thing led to another and that's led me to the point where I am today, which is my parents have no idea what I do and my friends don't either.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 4:58

That's so funny. I have a friend, she's very successful in her engineering career and she always tells me it's okay, Ashley, you're gonna find something soon. And I'm like, dude, freelance is what I've chosen. I like the project going from project you're find something soon.

Austin Church: 5:13

It's funny, my dad. We were talking last week and he had just finished reading the book, which was like So sweet. Yeah. And he was like, he doesn't do this often. He's always loving and complimentary, but he was just gushing and he was just like, it's so good. Like the stories you tell and made me feel really good. Of course. But he said one thing, he said, oh, you've always been able to learn anything. And if I think about what. Has, what about freelancing has been a fit For me, it's, I am that meta learner type. I like figuring things out, and so it should have been no surprise to me that this way of working would be a good fit because I just have this endless fascination with how things work and I like to learn, and I like that satisfaction of, yes, I figured it out. No, that can, curiosity can kill the cat too. Like I do think it helps sometimes to say I need to do fewer things and I need to do those fewer things better, but. But yeah, hopefully we both find something soon. Hopefully we both get a job soon.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 6:29

Continuing the search.

Austin Church: 6:31

That's right.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 6:32

Speaking of the book, I'm glad you brought that up, everyone. This is, if you're looking on YouTube, you'll see this. If not, I'll link this in the show notes. But Austin, your book Free Money. I love it. I have a copy here, read it and I'm taking notes. And it's specifically about pricing, which I think is, this is a resource that we've been needing, I think. And I really love for your style. Like I can tell that you are a poet. I can tell that you are an English major because it's not just because it's a business book. A business book for folks like us that choose our flavor of entrepreneurship is this solo entrepreneurship, freelance life. Mm-hmm. But it's written in a very, it's not boring, but it's conversational. It's approachable. Thank you. It's not luxury. I really love this. Tell me about how did this come to be? What's the story of the origin story behind the book?

Austin Church: 7:19

So I call myself a recovering money moron. I have that classic sort of poet mindset where I'm like, you only live once, which means I've gotten myself into financial trouble by living outside of my means at times. Oh, and I say that because I've had to fight to raise my financial literacy. It didn't come naturally to me to be frugal and yet. When we get into business, if you don't know a whole lot about business or about pricing, you're not naturally frugal. You. It may be hard for you to find like a business model that actually works and can support you. And so where the book came from was me teaching a group coaching program, and this is early 2021. Debriefing with everyone after I'd wrapped up the program and saying, Hey, what was most impactful for you? And thinking that they were gonna be like, oh, your brilliant approach to positioning or the way you think about like crafting juicy offers. And every single person in the group said, oh, it was like, matter of fact, conversations about pricing and money.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 8:42

Mm.

Austin Church: 8:42

And I remember thinking like I was disappointed. I was like, like surely the, because I'm like, I don't, I'm not like a money guru. Again. I've made all the mistakes and maybe it was the fact that I just talk candidly about, Hey, it doesn't matter how much you make, it matters how much you keep, or, mm-hmm. Hey, like you can be really talented, but if your prices send the wrong signal. People will think you're not talented because you're cheap. Just stuff that I picked up along the way.'cause I was a poet, not a businessman. I found out along the way. Oh, I was always entrepreneurial, but that conversation with the group made me think. Maybe my point of view is worth sharing. And this one guy in the group, his name's Jay Sin, he is an email marketing specialist. He said, maybe you ought to write a book about this. I was like, I don't wanna write a book about this. I don't want this to be my first book, like book for grownups. But then I realized I already had,'cause when I had a bit of a crisis. Financial and personal crisis. In 2015, I'd hacked together the process. So the process that I taught that group in 2021 was the process I created, and then I had written a guide called Earn What You're Worth. And so I start, and this is how things come together as like I start connecting the dots and I'm like, I've already written about this. I've already validated the pricing methodology with a bunch of coaching clients and people who bought the guide. Maybe there's something here. And so that's how it started.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 10:38

I love it. I love that there's, it's very tactical and practical. It's not. So much math that it feels scary. A lot of writers, some writers are unique and they can do both, right? They're like word wordsmiths and then numbers. They, that's, that comes easy to them as well. But I think it's, I like that it's, you give step-by-step kind of advice to figuring out kind of these key metrics, these key figures in your business. And when you take, when you look at the numbers. In the face and it's staring. There's no fee. Mm-hmm. Emotion is detached. You can see what are my numbers really telling me? Or when you were talking, I think about not all money. Just because you're getting paid a lot for a certain project doesn't mean that it's the most efficient use of your time. If you sit down and calculate, Hey, how long is this really taking me? And how many did I really put in? And you really discover, oh wait. That's just because it has a big shiny price tag. Or offer your biggest

Austin Church: 11:32

money. Isn't always your best money.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 11:35

Yeah. Talk about that more. I think that's important.

Austin Church: 11:38

So obviously we're creatives. You and I are both writers and it's like there are certain types of work that you just enjoy you for its own sake. But if you're trying to run a business. You want the business to be profitable, meaning even after you pay yourself a salary or whatever you want to call it, some sort of predictable owner's draw every month. Hopefully there's some leftover, and that could go toward lifestyle or finally getting ahead financially. A lot of us, we don't just naturally think about the math and we don't necessarily track our time. So it's actually hard to make an apples to apples comparison project. A. How much did it pay me as an effective hourly rate compared to project B? Project A? Maybe I was writing web content for tech company, project B. Maybe I was writing a case study for a consulting firm. Once the smoke clears. What did I charge? What was my fee? How many hours did I put into project A? What was my effective hourly rate? If I know what my effective hourly rate is for different types of projects, I can make that true apples to apples comparison, and then I might actually change my business and my marketing strategy as a result. Like maybe the case study paid me less in terms of fee. But maybe my effective hourly rate was significantly higher because the project just was less complex. There were fewer stakeholders, fewer meetings, fewer things to go wrong, fewer personality dynamics to manage. So once I make those side-by-side comparisons and know, Hey, this project right here has a much higher effective hourly rate. I might start asking, how do I get more long form narrative case studies? Or maybe I should niche down and focus on serving consulting firms instead of tech companies. If consulting firms just seem to be easier to work with, make fewer demands, that sort of thing. So a lot of better business strategy. Really does boil down to numbers. But again, those of us who aren't spreadsheet people sometimes need to work a little bit harder to get to those numbers and therefore get to the decisions they can help us make.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 14:21

I love that. That is gold gems, and I think it's hard sometimes because the nature of our work is we're always onto the next project, right? We're like, we file one story or turn something in invoice, and then it's like we're onto the next thing. Or sometimes we're juggling multiple things, multiple projects at the same time. That's usually the case. So it's. Unless you're really disciplined to schedule out that time, to crunch those numbers, to take a breath, to reflect and to say, what am I doing again? What was that worth? It? Did I even like that, that some of the, the work that I thought I would be. I guess most fulfilled at doing doesn't pay the most, right? Mm-hmm. A lot of the journalism stuff that I've done is not, I love it, but the content marketing stuff pays way more, and it's a lot, a lot of times less painful and sometimes it's hard to, to come to terms with those things. But unless you stop and think about it and look at what you've, the input, the meetings, like you said, the emails, the phone calls. Mm-hmm. Uh, you really, you don't know. You don't know the numbers unless you crunch 'em.

Austin Church: 15:22

So two things. Number one, I hate tracking time and yet yeah, I, I do it as consistently and carefully as I can. I use a tool like Moxie, the, it's called Moxie with moxie.com. I know some people listening to this would be like, what tool? You can use a bunch of different tools. Sure. But that's the first thing is as tedious and annoying as it is. If you track your time, you can make those comparisons later. The other thing I wanna double click on that you said is like reflection time or thinking time. Sarah Blakely, the founder of Spanx. Yeah. Who I just think is a tremendous entrepreneur. The more you get into her story, the more impressed you'll be. She created a fake commute when they moved. Their office, and it was very close to her home. She effectively cut out a commute, and it was a little while later that she realized I really needed that thinking time, that reflection, and that stuck with me because I think freelancers and consultants, if you. Work from home, you may not have anything like a commute or even a fake commute. And so what I've had to start doing is like scheduling, thinking time, because I've realized a need to position myself so that my best ideas can find me and they will find me consistently like kind of, I don't know if you ever read Stephen King's book on writing.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 17:04

No, I have, I need to. He,

Austin Church: 17:06

oh, it's so good. But he jokes that inspiration shows up on a regular basis when he sits down to write. So it's if he went, if he just waited to write until he was inspired, inspiration might never come. Right? But if he just sits his butt down on a chair, sure enough, inspiration shows up on a regular basis. And I think if you are struggling in your business. It may be that you don't actually have a stuckness or a clarity problem. It may mean you just don't spend enough time with a journal asking yourself questions like, what's wrong in my business right now? Or, who has my best client been recently or. What am I afraid of? I just really wanted to double click on reflection time.'cause I think it can be transformative. If you do it more often, you'll identify problems sooner and you'll solve them faster.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 18:02

That's awesome. And I love how you talk about that too. I think the earlier chapters in the book, you were talking about calculating what, like how much time do you really have to actually do the work? Mm-hmm. And I think what you're talking about with the reflective time, that's. That's the difference between, that can make the difference and having a sustainable business for the long term. Mm-hmm. Treating what we're doing as a business real company. Mm-hmm. Or real companies. Big companies. Big corporations have, they hire consultants to do strategic planning and make strategy plans, and they have planning sessions and they plan for the next fiscal year, whenever it ends for them. And it really. Makes me think, are we implementing those same practices in what we do, even if we are solopreneurs or maybe we have, it's us and a va, or a researcher, or, mm-hmm. You have a couple people working with you, but that's the difference if we're not actually treating this as a business and adding those activities and stop and not being just the waiter, the waitress, taking orders and cranking that words. That's right. We'll, never, we'll never scale. We'll never get anywhere.

Austin Church: 19:08

When do you have your best ideas, do you think?

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 19:11

Mine, it's always in the shower when I'm actually. Quiet or when the world is quiet, I feel like I, and sometimes I'll be like, you know what? I just need to like chill. I need to go swimming. I need to chill in a pool. I need to go, go in a jacuzzi, take a shower. Because that for some reason, me and water, and maybe it's being a parent. I know you've got three kids. I've got three

Austin Church: 19:33

kids. Or they can't find you. They

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 19:34

can't

Austin Church: 19:35

find you.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 19:36

I've locked the door and you know that's

Austin Church: 19:38

right.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 19:38

You can't, it's hard. You could multitask, but it's better if you don't. So I feel like that's where I get mine. What about you?

Austin Church: 19:46

I think it's similar. I do find that if I go for a walk that helps. Uh, but I think it goes, I love what you said about, hey, could we borrow the best of what much bigger companies that have to be more structured, could we borrow some of their structure or some of their practices and import those and use them in a way that's meaningful for us? I just think, okay, when do my best ideas happen? What if I were just to create more space? I keep a list of questions ready. I call 'em journaling questions, but anytime I find a good one, when I'm reading or listening, I go and I add it to my list. So that way anytime I feel stuck, I know I can grab my journal. Or I can look up the list of questions and go for a walk. Or to your point, maybe I just need to take a shower. Maybe I need to find, like sneak into a hotel pool. Yeah. Or, but I think it's pretty common that a lot of us would have better ideas if we just scheduled more thinking time. We can make it predictable. That is my hunch.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 21:05

Absolutely. And I think if we're. One way I think that will help is what, when you're talking about really focusing on the work that we get, that's the more efficient, that's more effective, the best use of our time. Because if we're taking all of these things that are just, whatever comes to us, low paying work or work that, that's not effective, that eats into that time. Because our time finite, unfortunately we don't, we can't make more time. So we've gotta really carve it out, guard it. Don't allow anything to encroach upon it, and I think ties nicely with what you're talking about with pricing and picking things. And so how do you, there's a lot of folks that are listening, a lot of folks in my audience and me included, who may have struggled with. Raising prices, raising our rate. Mm-hmm. Asking for more money. You were talked about on the onset how it sends a message and it ties into positioning what we charge. Can you talk about strategies for doing that now in this economy? Mm-hmm. With everything that's happening, uh, affecting freelance, what would you say to someone who needs to raise their rate so they can build in more reflecting time?

Austin Church: 22:14

Great question. I would start at a very high level and say. Some people are still going to win in this economy. Why not you? Mm. And then the follow up question is, and what's it gonna take to win? I have a coaching client who went through the exercises in the book. She quoted a new project for an old client or an existing client using her dream rate. And she sent me this, I think it was Monday, so it was yesterday. So it was like this week. And she said, so not only did they just accept, I also just sold, that represents the biggest project I've ever sold.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 23:09

Wow. That's cool. And

Austin Church: 23:10

she said, and I hesitated right before sending the quote. But I didn't. And then they said yes. And she said, now I know that if I had hesitated, I would've left $10,000 on the table. Oh

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 23:25

my God.

Austin Church: 23:27

So people are still spending money. Someone is going to win in this market. Why not you? That's nice. From like the cheerleading raw standpoint. Right. But. I do think it helps to know the survival rate, which is, Hey, I have to make this much as my effective hourly rate. Even if I charge a flat fee for projects, I have to make this much. I can't go below this when I'm digging myself on. Dual hole also helps to know your dream rate to be like, okay, how much does my effective hourly rate need to be for me to be making definitive progress toward my long-term financial and lifestyle goals? I need to know these numbers, survival and dream rate, so that I can know what my prices need to be. One day. If you feel like you can't charge your dream rates right now because of the economy or your current client mix or whatever, I get it, but it helps to know what both numbers are and then to get very practical, look at your survival rate. And then do 10% more than that. So give yourself a 10% bump. It's probably not gonna be enough to lose you, the client. It will be enough, at least in the US to keep you ahead of inflation right now of a client who's in Estonia and inflation was 24% last year.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 25:02

Oh my goodness.

Austin Church: 25:03

So if we think we've got it bad in the us, there are other countries that have seen much higher inflation, right? Anyway, you can still make some incremental gains even in this market. And then the other thing I would say is even in a tough market, there are some niches, some market sectors where their money is still flowing. So you have to take a hard look at your specialization, your horizontal specialization, which industry are you in, which target audience do you serve? And say, is it reasonable to think that. Decision makers in my target audience will pay me what I want to make. And again, what I want to make comes back to, needs to be above my survival rate, and ideally it needs to be somewhere close to my dream rate. Is it reasonable to think that people in this target audience will pay that? And if the answer is no. Then either you need to fix your positioning and become a recognized authority in that market, or you need to find a new target audience. And I know that can sound harsh because especially if you love the people you work with, like I have friends and a handful of coaching clients who love working with nonprofits. Love working with churches and they're like, I just haven't been able to get the budgets. And I'm like, I get that. This is where your heart is, but you need to decide. Am I actually okay? Continuing to work with shoestring budgets, and if you're not, you need to pivot. And it's not at that point, it doesn't have to be an emotional decision. That can just be like a dollars and cents business decision. So that's the advice I'd give to people who are feeling nervous or uncertain, is you don't have to make a big jump in your prices. Just start with 10%, but I forget who said it all. Change starts with telling the truth. Tell the truth about whether your current target audience. Is realistically gonna pay you what you want to make and then make strategic business decisions from there.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 27:32

I love it. I love it. You mentioned it might sound harsh and and emotion, and I think those are two things that I think everybody needs to listen. I think it's okay for us to be uncomfortable for a little bit. I think we need to be comfortable in discomfort. Mm-hmm. You mentioned on onset starting your business in April, 2009. I started mine around the same time, 2000. That was the great recession. Terrible time. It was horrible to start

Austin Church: 27:55

a business. Terrible. And you've

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 27:56

heard that right? With a lot of, even again, big corporations, they, they've got these origin stories that some of them, the biggest businesses were created during economic downturn. Mm-hmm. Downturns. Mm-hmm. And so we can't allow that. We can't use it as a crutch, I feel, and we have to be. Okay. With that discomfort with asking for more, with using silence as a tool with the woman that you were coaching by doing the scary thing. And sometimes it may work and it may not. I think there was something mm-hmm. That you had on Twitter about. Sometimes losing business or rejection, that it's a rite of passage as a freelancer.

Austin Church: 28:34

Oh yeah. Yeah. And I think it's

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 28:35

true. You're not going to know that is a risk that you take. But I think if you adopt an abundant mindset that this prospect that you're talking with, you're engaging with is not the only one in the face of the planet. So if they say, no, that doesn't first, that doesn't mean the end of the conversation. And it is a conversation. Negotiation is a conversation, and if they say, no, we can't. They're not the only fish in the sea, and so we need to be okay.

Austin Church: 29:01

That's right, that's right. Okay. With it's I, despite how much I make fun of math, it really does help to look at your current client mix and do some math and say, okay, if I were to raise my rates 10% or 20%. What would I be making as a result? And if I did a bigger jump, 20%, 25 or whatever, and I were to lose a client, you may realize that the numbers still work in your favor because the 20% or 25% that you're amount you're now making by charging higher rates to the clients who stay with you will cover. The client that you just lost in the time that you just freed up by effectively losing or breaking up with that client with higher rates. Use that to improve your offers. Use that to. Create more content, use that to generate more leads. Finally, nail down a clear marketing plan. Commit to a weekly marketing schedule or what I call a morning marketing habit. Bad things are always gonna happen in your business.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 30:18

Yeah.

Austin Church: 30:19

When they happen, not if, but when Do you ask yourself, do you have that abundance mindset like you said, and is your tendency to. Like just freak out, which I've been there. Or is your tendency to say, okay, how do I turn this? How can I turn this into an opportunity? I still have my freakout moments, but I also have what I call a lemonade protocol. Life gives you lemons and it's gonna happen. Bad things are gonna happen, unfair, bad things even are gonna happen. Do you have a protocol that can provide your, that can give you a little bit of structure while your nervous system is calming down and while your parasympathetic nervous system is telling your sympathetic fight or flight response, we're gonna be okay, but I actually need to take the wheel. Now. I use that protocol so that I'm like, okay, how do I turn this into an opportunity? I. I was looking at my pipeline and I'm like, it's looking anemic. Definitely need some more opportunities in here, and I can freak out and spend time feeling anxious that I'm not spending generat generating leads, or I can look at my protocol and say, let me run this. Yes, the economy's kind of choppy, uncertain right now, but why shouldn't you win? Yeah.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 31:53

Like you said with, I love what you were talking about your dad when he read your book and how he was gushing over it and talking about that. You've always had that ability to learn new things and I think about that when you were talking about sometimes you might have to do the hard thing and even switch your target audience, which who you're going after, even if that's scary starting over or feeling like you're starting over with a new. Niche or new market can sound scary, but I think we have to have a little bit more faith in ourselves, in our ability to learn something. Like all of us, when we came into this world and we opened our eyes for the first time and said, okay, I'm a human. I'm a girl, or I'm a man, or I'm what, whatever it is that we were, we could have been a cat for all I know, but when we came into this planet, we opened our eyes. We didn't know anything, didn't everything we know didn to this moment, we had to learn. Mm-hmm. So I think sometimes we're just so afraid of change and I think that's a human thing of being a fearful of change or a resistant to it. Mm-hmm. But we just have to come back to that. We, everything we know, we've learned over time and so we can learn something new, we can learn a new niche, we can learn a new way of doing business. And I think that comfort with that, you will get rejected. You will lose a client, you will probably have to fire a client or you should, I think. Mm-hmm. To just go ahead and accept that and accept that we, I love when you talked about things happening that are unfair. Yeah. Mm-hmm. There's gonna be unfair things that happen to us in life and in business, and we just gotta put our big girl in our big man pants on it.

Austin Church: 33:24

It's like people experience different levels of different degrees of adversity, right? Mm-hmm. And I'm gonna be the last person to say that everybody's experience is gonna be the same as mine,

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 33:39

right?

Austin Church: 33:39

What I can tell you is that when I look at people who I find inspiring, a lot of them look very different than me and have experienced. A great deal, more adversity than I have, and have accomplished a lot more than I have. So I'm looking at people that have suffered a lot and I'm like, how are you able to have such an abundance mindset? How are you able to overcome? Like to beat the odds, right? And so I think when your brain is freaking out, it really helps to find somebody. Who's in an even worse position than you are and has accomplished more? And don't beat yourself up, but just remind yourself things could be worse. And also, um, like you said, I can learn. And I may look foolish for a certain period of time, like I just made a video in a public place that I posted on LinkedIn. Felt like an idiot, but I'm like, I gotta learn. I made a tie-dye shirt the other day with my daughter. Oh, I love that. I didn't do a very good job. It was not, it's not a good tie-dye shirt. So it's, whether it's the economy and the threat or the long shadow cast by recession, whatever it is. You're always gonna be up against something that makes you uncomfortable, some kind of adversity, some kind of problem. Develop that mindset that's like, how do I turn this into an opportunity? And I think that's one of the most valuable things we can do as freelancers.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 35:24

Absolutely. And I find that it's not. The act of whatever we're scared of. It's the anticipation. Yes. Like I remember my husband and I on our honeymoon, we went to Costa Rica and I think it was, we were on this big boat and he like jumped into the water and he is like, come on, come jump in the water. Jump in the water. We were, I forgot how tall. It felt very tall to me. Yeah. Yeah. I, he was already in the water and he's like, come on. And I remember I was. So scared. I was So you were

Austin Church: 35:50

just thinking about it and thinking about it? Yeah, I was thinking about it

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 35:53

and it was so silly because I know how to swim. I'm from Florida. What was I afraid of? I don't know what I was. It was the anticipation. It was looking down. Mm-hmm. It wasn't, 'cause once your feet leave, you're going gravity, you're going in that water. It's that decision. Mm-hmm. And the same thing I think with this, once you decide you're raising where you're gonna send that email, you're gonna send that proposal that has that information about the investment. Mm-hmm. Once you hit submit. Mm-hmm. It's there, and then you can see what happens next. Or you're on that phone call or you're on the Zoom call and you have to state your rate. It's the anticipation that's the most scary. Once you've said it, you've done it, whatever it is, it's not as scary anymore.

Austin Church: 36:35

Yeah, that is such a good word. Ashley, so many of the things that we want are on the other side of discomfort.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 36:41

Yeah.

Austin Church: 36:43

And yet. Like, I remember the first time I really got trolled with one of my LinkedIn posts, but then it was like, oh, I can live with this. Like the worst it happened, like someone was deliberately misunderstanding me.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 36:58

Yeah.

Austin Church: 36:59

Trying to call me out and make my posts say something that it didn't say.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 37:04

Yeah.

Austin Church: 37:04

Not adding to the conversation, just being a jerk. And I'm like, why are you even, do you not have better things to do with your time? But the worst happened in a way when, because why do more of us not post more? Why do we not share more online? We're afraid that we'll say something wrong. Someone will show up and be ugly and then it happens and you're like, oh. Okay. And I've, uh, forget who said this, maybe a bunch of people, but like new levels, new devils. It's like if you keep growing, you're just gonna keep having bigger problems. You're gonna have more adversity. It's get used to it. The boat is gonna be bigger, and the jump down under the water is gonna be taller.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 37:52

Oh, God,

Austin Church: 37:52

just deal with it.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 37:55

Yeah, we've got to, that's the only guarantee is that there's gonna be hard times and there's gonna be scary times, and the rest is up to us. What are we gonna do? Gonna cry? Are we gonna, for me, I cry and then I fight back

Austin Church: 38:07

the space. I'll still cry

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 38:08

first.

Austin Church: 38:09

Yeah. Make the space for the fear and frustration in the, sometimes it's like feeling ashamed. Like I had this financial crisis in 2015 where I was like, we were back in debt and I was like, I just felt so ashamed and embarrassed. I'm like, I wouldn't suggest bottling all that up. Let yourself feel whatever you're feeling. But there's this concept in Buddhism I really like of the second arrow. The first arrow is the thing that happens. So when you lose a client and it's unfair, they accuse you of like negligence and you're like, I went above and beyond whatever it may be. That's the situation, that's the event. The second arrow is telling yourself a story about the event that isn't fully true. So that's another thing that I'm like, yeah, let yourself feel all the feelings. Let yourself cry. Let yourself be disappointed. Let yourself be furious. And then move on as quickly as possible. And certainly don't hit yourself with that second arrow. And this is coming from a guy who I've got a long career in nursing petty grievances, so I'm still got a lot of progress to make in this particular area.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 39:22

Same, same man. And I think what you talked about, the shame part. Oh man. I think there's a lot there tied with money and. There's a lot, and you talked about some of that in the book. I was telling it when we first started talking that I was revisiting the scripts and the kind of stories we tell ourselves. Stories that we have believed about money and, and just the nature of work, right? Like the nature. I, I feel like things are shifting in so many ways, in so many areas of our lives, but I think it's interesting, one of the mindset shifts for me. Was to view what I'm doing as a business transaction. That I think when you think of W2, like traditional employment, it's us. That is the job seekers tap dancing and trying to get pick, pick me right from these big companies to allow us to. Labor for them to toil for them, create something. And I think for me, when I shifted this mindset of I have specific services that are gonna make a business impact on for this company. Mm-hmm. And they're going to compensate me accordingly, and we have a transaction that's mutually beneficial, this. The person who's paying me is not above me. My worth as a woman, they're not

Austin Church: 40:35

doing me a favor by hiring me. No tap, no tap dancing required. Thank you very much.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 40:42

My tap shoes are retired. Yeah.

Austin Church: 40:44

Yeah. They're, it's such a interesting, Theyre locked in the closet.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 40:47

Yes. Yeah.

Austin Church: 40:48

I, I was writing about this the other day. That's one of the core mindset shifts is I'm not an expense, I'm an investment. There's a fair exchange of value here. In fact, I'm gonna do my very best to create more value for you than I'm receiving in the form of cash.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 41:05

Yeah, and

Austin Church: 41:07

that's another thing to keep in mind when you raise your prices. I have raised my prices and had a few folks over the years, so it's about time.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 41:18

Oh no, don't tell me that. Like

Austin Church: 41:20

they knew I was undervaluing myself. So if you're listening to this. Don't be surprised when not only do you not lose clients, your clients respect you for making the smart choice for your business.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 41:36

Yeah. For me, if I'm sending a proposal out and the number doesn't make me feel a little bit nauseous, a little uncomfortable, then I'm like, okay, I price is too low. Yeah. It's gotta feel like you gotta wince a little bit and then I feel okay. That's the sweet spot.

Austin Church: 41:54

Yeah. That's how you know you're not playing it safe, right?

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 41:57

Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I think so. So Austin, I know people are gonna be just really inspired by everything that you're sharing here. For listeners that wanna do the hard thing and raise their rates and see what happens, what's one thing they can do today to start moving their business in a more profitable way?

Austin Church: 42:19

Pull out your journal, write down your clients, either the current or recent ones, write down what you charged. If you have a time tracker, go back and look at how much time you put in. Otherwise, ballpark it. Try to remember how much time you put in, what is your effective hourly rate, and then I would go and calculate your survival rate, get the book. The exercises are pretty easy and just see, are most of my clients paying me enough to make my business sustainable? Just start there. Start with the truth. Is my business sustainable with my current prices, with my current clients? And then you're smart, you're capable. If the answer ends up being no, or. A couple of clients aren't sustainable, then you'll know what you need to do.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 43:21

That's great. Very cool. So everybody, like we said, get free money. You can get, I got mine on Amazon, right? Can we get it from your website directly or

Austin Church: 43:31

Yeah. Freelance cake.com. Okay. You'll see book right there in the main nav. Amazon's fine as well. But yeah, read it and please let me know how it goes. I. Love getting emails and messages from people who are like, I finally sold a project at my dream rate. I'm like, my wife's like, why are you crying in the middle of the day? I'm like, my book had just made a difference for someone in Argentina. I love those moments. I.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 43:57

That's awesome. Talk about impactful work like and the ripple effects from that. That's very cool. Austin, thank you so much for writing this book for everything that you do with Freelance Cake to inspire folks in the freelance community. Thanks for being on the show today. I really appreciate it.

Austin Church: 44:15

Oh, it's been my joy. Ashley, thanks for the invite.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 44:18

Before we wrap up, just a quick reminder, Austin's special event, the Growth Without Burnout Summit is happening May 6th through May 9th, 2025. You can still grab your free ticket and even save big on that VIP pass packed with over $3,700 in bonuses. All you have to do is use my special link to claim your spot and. Get some savings on the goods. That link again is Bit Lee slash Grow Freelancer. Once again, that's Bit Lee slash Grow Freelancer. With that, we've come to the end of another episode. Please make sure you hit subscribe and give me a five star review on Apple. Check out the show notes and grab my free niches. Get Riches freelance writing worksheet to brainstorm the best niches for your writing business. Until next time, this is Ashley Cisneros Mejia. Don't forget we all get this one. Precious life. Don't constrain yourself to a box that you are never meant to fit in. It is your right to profit from your own creative gifts. Our music was composed by Donna Raphael of World Instrumentals Talk. Freelance to me is a product of Fenix Creative Studio.