Writing, Boundaries, and How to Be a Feisty Freelancer with Dr. Sue Bowness

What does it really take to build a freelance business that feels steady, fulfilling, and true to who you are? 

Every freelancer faces moments of doubt, especially when the industry shifts, competition rises, or motivation fades. But there are practical ways to stay grounded and keep moving forward.

In this conversation, Ashley Cisneros Mejia talks with Dr. Suzanne (Sue) Bowness, writer, editor, teacher, consultant, and author of The Feisty Freelancer. Sue has been freelancing independently since 2002, and she’s built a business around long-form writing, teaching, and helping creative freelancers develop their voice, workflow, and confidence.

They cover the full scope of freelance life: how to start before you feel ready, how to find clients, what to do when fear affects your decisions, and ways to build a healthier rhythm when you work from home. Sue also shares insights from her book and offers realistic, encouraging advice that freelancers at any stage can use.

ABOUT SUE 

Dr. Suzanne (Sue) Bowness is a writer/editor/consultant and principal of CodeWord Communications. She has been working independently since 2002 and published her guide to freelancing The Feisty Freelancer with Dundurn Press in 2025 after teaching writing courses for 15+ years. Read more about her and her work at SuzanneBowness.com.

Full show notes here. 

Chapters

• 1:41 How did Dr. Sue Bowness start her freelance journey?
• 6:01 How should freelancers balance multiple freelance roles?
• 13:46 How do you set boundaries as a freelancer?
• 20:15 How do you tailor freelance services for different clients?
• 36:03 What advice should new freelancers follow?
• 41:55 What are Dr. Sue’s favorite chapters in The Feisty Freelancer book?
• 45:08 What’s next for Dr. Sue Bowness’ freelance brand?

Transcript

Dr. Suzanne Bowness: 0:00

for me, feisty is about standing up to get paid what you're worth. Standing up for telling the story in the right way, i'm feisty. I think when I stand up for good contracts or I pass along to other writers, Hey, don't sign this contract. It's not great. So I think we can all be like quietly feisty in our own way. And I think that's the way that w. We keep being able to do this thing that we love is, by sharing within the industry and then making sure that we are making decisions every day that are just a little bit feisty in terms of keeping our business moving forward.

Speaker: 0:34

Welcome to Talk Freelance to me, the podcast for women freelance writers, 10 99 independent contractors and solopreneurs. I'm your host, Ashley Ci SDOs Mejia. For more than 20 years, I've worked as a journalist and freelance writer. Today as a mom of three kids, I'm passionate about helping other women leverage the freedom that freelance offers on top freelance. To me, we're all about the business of freelancing. If you want to learn how to monetize your talents, make money on your own terms, and design a flexible work life that actually works for you. This show is for you. Before we get started, don't forget to follow us on your favorite social media platforms. Review us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen, and don't forget to share this episode with a friend.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 1:21

I'm so glad that you're here today. I'm joined by someone who truly walks the walk when it comes to freelancing on her own terms. Dr. Suzanne Bonis, or Sue, as she goes by, has been running her own writing and editing business. Code word communications for over 20 years. She's also taught writing for more than 15 years, and she published a smart, grounded, and encouraging book called The Feisty Freelancer. This conversation is packed with real world insights for freelancers, whether you're just looking to get started or looking to regroup after time away. Something she said that really stuck with me was this idea that being feisty. Doesn't always have to mean being loud. It can mean being clear on your boundaries and committed to telling the story in the right way. That's a message we can all take to heart. So let's get into the episode. I. Dr. Sue, thank you so much for being on the Talk Freelance Me Podcast. I'm so excited. We met at A SJA, we sat down next to each other at the Nonfiction Writers Dinner, and I am just so inspired by everything that you've done, your new book, just your whole trajectory. So thank you very much for being here.

Dr. Suzanne Bowness: 2:38

Thanks very much for inviting me and I came home from the conference and binge this podcast a little bit and was really enjoying it. And yeah, so glad to be here.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 2:49

Awesome. And so you've been freelancing for 20 years. You have your PhD. I was joking in our, in the email that if I got a doctorate, I would ask my mom to even call me doctor, because that's a big deal. Tell me about your path. What drew you to where you are now? Being freelancing for this long and actually writing this awesome book that we'll talk about in a moment.

Dr. Suzanne Bowness: 3:12

Yeah, thanks. My path is that I've always wanted to be a writer, and so I have my I remember articulating that in grade three, and I actually have my grade seven autobiography and my bookshelf that announces that is on one of the pages. It's been a long time for me that I'd known what I wanted to do, so I'm lucky that way. And then after I graduated from undergrad I was like. Oh, how do I do this in practical terms and become an adult and make a living and that kind of thing. And I realized I'd gotten into loving to read magazines and I thought that would be a good place for me to be able to write full-time. And so I got an internship and which fortunately, very fortunately, turned into a job. And so I worked with a great group of people at a, weekly magazine for about a year and a half. And then as sometimes happens in magazines. The magazine folded and all of our staff was laid off. And so it was like, yay, I have this great job, my Dream magazine, and then Boo, I'm laid off. And so I had to decide what to do next. And for me, the thing that seemed quite appealing was, seeing all these freelancers come in and write for the magazine, and they seem to have this cool, flexible schedule. And I thought maybe that's me and it was gonna be me in 10 years after I had worked quite a bit more in the magazine industry. But I was like maybe I, it's time to try it now and see if it sticks. And it did because I think it really fits that I am I have an independent streak at the time I was very up. Set about the idea that you could get laid off at 25 and then have to figure out your next step so quickly. And so I was really upset and mad and, then through that I no longer upset and mad, and instead I found this great. Path that really suits me. I think I have the self-discipline to do it, and I love the freedom of being able to make my own schedule eliminate the scourge of meetings that so many people in a traditional office need to deal with and do a lot of writing all the time. So it, it really felt like I was getting back to writing as well, which is my passion. And I'm really just, I love putting words together. And so even as I was in a magazines. I wasn't doing that as much. I was doing managing and I was doing planning and stuff like that, which is fun in its own right. But I, thought, here's a way to get back to writing. And so that really worked for me.

. Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 5:42

I really, love that. I think I have that independent streak too. Definitely. And I love how you knew that about yourself, even as a young girl, like third grade and then seventh grade, you having that documentation, like this has been my thing my whole life. That's pretty cool.

Dr. Suzanne Bowness: 5:57

Yeah.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 5:58

That's awesome. Now I wanna talk about your book.'cause as you were saying this independent streak that makes me think of feisty, which is the feisty freelancer. This is your new book. Yeah. And I'm really fortunate to have a copy'cause I got to meet you in New York. Tell me about feisty, what does feisty mean to you in the context of freelance and why do you think it's important to call your book the feisty freelancer?

Dr. Suzanne Bowness: 6:23

So I feel like one of the skills that we don't always talk about in terms of freelancing is that resilience and persistence that you really need to get it done and that it's not a magic, twist where you're able to suddenly have success. You have to keep working at it. And I think people don't realize the amount of effort that's required just to just get it started, keep it going, that kind of thing. It's funny about the title because I met up with a long time colleague and somebody I really respect in the industry, and he's I don't think of feisty when I think of you all the time. I think of nice and approachable and that kind of thing. And so I created a bookmark to promote the book. I was thinking, why did I choose the word feisty? Obviously 'cause it's alliterative in terms of feisty. I love it. Feisty freelancer. That's a writer thing. Yeah. But mostly it was so I found this nice definition on the, oh yeah. Call dictionary. Yeah. So if you describe someone as feisty, you mean that they are tough, independent, and spirited often when you would not expect them to be. And so I'm like even anybody, it doesn't have to. It's not like I'm starting bar fights. I am like. Quietly persistent and like encouraging others to be that same way. I feel like for me, feisty is about standing up to get paid what you're worth. Standing up for telling the story in the right way, even if a an editor is trying to tone down the story or turn it into something different, to stand up for the story. I think that's being feisty. I'm feisty. I think when I stand up for good contracts or I pass along to other writers, Hey, don't sign this contract. It's not great. So I think we can all be like quietly feisty in our own way. And I think that's the way that w. We keep being able to do this thing that we love is, by sharing within the industry and then making sure that we are making decisions every day that are just a little bit feisty in terms of keeping our business moving forward.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 8:25

I love it because it reminds me of this conversation we have about words and it's funny that your friend, like feisty, I don't think it's, I think it's a positive word, but I think maybe, some people think that there's that by being feisty, independent, assertive. Confident that those can be like negative qualities or problematic qualities but that both things can exist. Like you can be nice and have a a quiet, assertiveness that's not disrespectful. Like those things don't have to be, they can both exist and they can both be true. And I don't think they're negative in any way, but I think we're still as women business owners still saying that just because we are standing up for what's right and, what we deserve and what other people deserve, doesn't mean that we're problematic or like. Starting a, virtual bar fight

Dr. Suzanne Bowness: 9:21

for sure. Yeah. I can always be I'm always perceived as fairly quiet and I am an introvert for sure. Get my energy from my alone time. But I also, I will push back a little bit or stand up or something when I see something happening that. Think is right. And so I think we have to do that more and more these days as independent workers. And so I think if we can encourage each other to do that and to, as you say, take on that title without worrying too much about the implications, then you know, I think even quiet people can claim a title like feisty.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 9:57

Absolutely. And I know you do a lot of different things. When you were mentioning when you were with the magazine, you were doing a lot of more project management or managing the, making sure the magazines, I guess got out. And in addition to writing, and you're a scholar and you teach people and mentor them and, the whole nine how do you balance all of these different roles and what keeps you energized? Is there maybe one area of your work that you really enjoy most?

Dr. Suzanne Bowness: 10:25

When I started teaching it was to find, I've always looked for different sidelines in my business. So for a while, I edited quarterly trade magazine. That was fun. And also a way to just have a, an a sort of sideline income. And then I looked for that in terms of teaching. And I found that was. Nice way to pass along my skills and passion for what I do. And also it fit well with my business in terms of freelancing full time. I could teach a course here or there. It didn't matter if it was in the day because I had that kind of flexibility that I already liked. And so in terms of. Balancing it. I think my energy is derived in writing. It's just derived from the, putting one sentence in front of the other. I just really like taking on new topics. I find it interesting that we're learning all the time, doing interviews, talking to really interesting people. I do a lot of, or writing about research, getting that cool research out into the wider public. And having it better understood by them. I think that's really engages me and energizes me in terms of that mission to share the information, make it easily understood. And then in terms of teaching, I think it's just when I see new students, new writers who also might have had the, wish to write since grade three, or even sometimes the wish that they just put in a closet because they felt like, oh, it's not a very practical career, which in some ways it isn't. But who, has a practical career? What, which one is a practical one, right? If you use, there's something that you like so much that you're gonna put in a lot of effort, then that should be the one for you. So sometimes I meet students who are like, oh. More mature and decides okay, I'm 30 or I'm 45 and I'm gonna become a writer. It's great to see their energy and I think that energizes me. And then I'm energized also by talking about like big picture pieces in our industry. That's why I like listening to podcasts where we talk about what's happening, what's happened in the past, what can we do to keep ourselves sane in the future and and keep working together to make things. Work for us individually, but then also as an industry. So those are some of the things that get me. Excited and make me keep coming to my desk at 9:00 AM every morning.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 12:45

That's so, cool. And I know that you've been doing this a long time, so you've seen, when you talk about like things happening in the industry before and then now in the future, I feel like there's been so much roller coaster. The nature of what we work, what we do is unpredictable and it's governed by us. If we bring in business, it's because of us usually, like our efforts. And you've seen the industry as a whole go up and down through different economic times now with ai. Changing things again. I feel like a lot of freelancers that we talk to that maybe are in the, association we're in, there's been some of that fear or questioning, maybe thinking about. Okay. If I get a client I don't know when I'm gonna get that next one. Things are so competitive right now, and so I feel like sometimes that slides into not holding our boundaries, not enforcing those boundaries that we set for ourselves or. Accepting rates that maybe we really what are some things that you can share with maybe people who are listening right now, who are struggling with that, who are feeling doubtful or just maybe that they're accepting things that maybe they normally wouldn't out of fear of the economy or the industry.

Dr. Suzanne Bowness: 14:09

I wanna legitimize the fear in that things are super changing right now. And I also fear ai, but I feel like you can't you can't hide from it. It's not going away . , Last chapter in the book is about ai and I was like, oh, no, I can't write about that. But I have. Too, I feel like Yeah, because it's, here already. And so I just reflected on all of the things that have changed in the past few years and the fact that there are still writers in the 20 years that I've been developing my career, there's also new opportunities. There's opportunities that fell by the wayside. And it, will change, but there's always gonna be opportunities , I think that's part of the feisty is . Finding the new things that you can do. And so being flexible I think is useful. I still think you need in order to be creative, that time off and that time to think and refresh and that kind of thing. So I wrote a chapter on working from home, which is interesting to me that working from home used to be like, I used to be the weirdo working from home. Oh my God, yes. Calling in to the conference call where everybody else was in the boardroom, and I was like, Hey, on the on the video screen, on the TV screen. But it turns out that , I got a little bit of a head start on that because now we're all much more comfortable on Zoom, which is great for freelancers and and so that has. Changed over the years. But I think like this new on all the time, workplace means that we do have to set those boundaries in order to keep that creative well full and open. In the chapter one, working from home, I encourage people to set limits on their day. I practice and keep the same hours as my clients, nine to five ish. So I'm trying to be at my desk at that point 'cause I do believe you need enough some. Seat, but in seat time. And to keep it going, but I try not to answer email before or after, unless it's an an emergency or something. For example, I got an email from a client canceling an interview this morning, and I, think, like I just happen to, I'm not up at six, but I, woke up briefly checked my phone and I saw that she'd sent a message at six. Did I reply at six? I did not. I replied at nine because that's when I knew it wasn't gonna be helpful to have that information earlier. It wasn't urgent. And so I've shown that my workday is nine to five kind of thing. And I, think that people are becoming more accepting of that. I see in a lot of people's email taglines or signatures that my, my work hours are not your work hours. And I've tried to abide by that. Not answering emails in the evening. Even if I get them in the evening I, find a draft them, find a, put them in draft and if that's when I wanna be working, but like I'm signaling to other people, these are my working hours. And then I'm also respecting that I don't expect you to even read my email on the off hours, so I'm gonna. Send it to you in the regular hours. That's one thing I do. And then if I have to work late, sometimes I do the freelance schedule can be busy sometimes. And we do have a lot of work. We want a lot of work in terms of keeping our business going. But if I'm going to be working late, I try to take a break at five and come back to it.'cause sometimes you can get so wrapped up in your work or your business and you think God, I finished this story. And yes, if you're in a groove. Go with that energy. But do I think if you're just slogging away and you're like, oh, it's five, but I have deadlines and that kind of thing. You're always gonna have deadlines if you're a successful freelancer. So go take a walk, go make dinner and then if you have to work late and you, do have that many deadlines come back. And often I find by the time, like I'm so into it. At five o'clock, but by the time I came back at five 30, I'm like, is it really important for me to get that work done tonight? No, it's not. I can do that thing in the morning. I was just so wrapped up in it and sometimes it is important and I do it, but most of the time I end up like ending my day and I feel like keeping my five to nine. To be my time is just good for work life stress, balance, that kind of thing. So I, think that's really something useful that I pass along to. New writers and any writer that we want to keep our work life balance pretty tight. But also sometimes you can be out of balance and that's fine too so there might be times like, oh, this is a five week busy period and I'm, I know I'm gonna be working late. Okay, fine. As long as it returns to some balance and as long as you're okay, like checking in with your own mental health and your energy levels and stuff like that. When you're. Too stressed out and you can find new ways to make make your life your own fun, fantastic flexible life because that's what you signed up for a freelancer world to do.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 19:13

I love it so much, and I agree. There's some certain times where you just know you need to just walk away and take a break. Like yesterday I was proofing something and it's due soon. And so I had printed it out and I was reading it, and then I noticed I got to I was flipping the pages and I, read the, last page that I was on and I realized I didn't. Remember anything I just read like, my brain, it's like I had gone into the back office of my brain and I kept doing the activity, like reading, and I was like, I'm retaining nothing. Quiz me and I would fail miserably because it's time to put it away because I, yeah, you just reach a point where . You have to take those breaks to reenergize, recharge, refuel. I think that's really wise. That's, super smart. And I love how you talked about signaling that buyer communication by when we answer we do signal to our clients like what our boundaries are and also that respect, that mutual respect to them because they're all different. And I noticed from your background that you have also worked with different. Clients like the government, nonprofits private, organizations. And I know you've taught also, how do you tailor, the way that you do services, the way that you interact and deliver those freelance services, for the client that you're serving?

Dr. Suzanne Bowness: 20:37

I've started to identify my business as focusing on long form content, and so despite having a variety of clients, I'm always looking for who could I write a longish magazine story for, because that's what I really, I started in journalism and I still do some, and I really like. Interviewing people, weaving together their quotes to make an interesting story, delve into something I like writing profiles, that kind of thing. So in spite of having these different streams, they're not that different in terms of I started writing in the education sector 'cause I thought, oh, where's a place that publishes magazines that's not necessarily consumer magazines. And possibly a lot of profiles that in, universities and colleges. And so they they publish alumni magazines. They publish research magazines, which I really like for getting that research out there in a plain language style. And so that's why I started writing there. A lot of my work is pretty similar despite. Being in different sectors. And then in terms of the voice for the clients, I just try to get to know them. And that's why I like to have repeat clients . So you get to know their style and tone. And I often will do that with a new client by just reading a lot of their back catalog and figuring out like how do they write things? I consult the previous story from everything from how do they. Frame their quotes to, how many quotes do they use? Sometimes people like to use a lot and sometimes they use fewer. What's their style in terms of headlines? What's even what what can I know about what, how they use capitalizations and titles and stuff like that. And so just. Being, becoming a student of that publication or client first I feel is a sign of respect for their previous output. And then just asking questions and making sure that I'm reading everything correctly and, know what they want. So I love good client brief creative brief with assignment letter and that kind of thing. And so I try to ask for that and make sure that I have a good understanding of what they're looking for as I am starting. To create the piece. And then I am totally open to suggestion and revision, and I encourage other people to not be a diva when they're being edited and just know that the client is the, keeper of the brand. And so they have spent so much time thinking about the brand most often. And then I'm coming to it as somebody who's. Like new to the team or as I've been working those for a while, but part of a team and so open to their suggestions to get that voice right'cause I know it's so important

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 23:20

and that's hard. That's so hard.'cause we writing. Is an art we're not always doing artistic type of writing for our clients, but it is something that we're creating and then we, through all that, I love how you talked about all the research and studying the client and looking for what they like through their previous work. And we try really hard to, emulate that and then while still offering something fresh while still. Leveraging what we know and bringing it to help them position themselves the best we can. But it is hard when you hit submit and you're waiting and there is that feedback of there's, edit requests, and we may not agree with it. It can be hard, to, receive that, but I, just always think of it like. Mathematics, you know that four plus four is always going to equal eight no matter what. No matter how we feel about it. That's the truth. And I just feel like with the nature of our work, it is subjective sometimes in that the client and kind of there is a art to it to. Doing what's right and of course getting the facts right. But if we have a preference and the client has another preference, they win. They're paying. But it isn't, an easy thing, to deal with sometimes when there is this, critique, of our work.

Dr. Suzanne Bowness: 24:48

I think it could be hard to know when to push back and when to say yes. And you're trying to in real time, figure out your battles and like that actually is spelled wrong. And so here's why. But also not to be not to be a jerk about it and say, , why you just say, this is why I try to be direct if something is, spelled wrong, this happened the other week. And it's just a style thing that I'm like, oh I, actually know I'm right. And and then, but in some cases, like it's a totally flexible everybody else, does it in different ways. And, in that case I, mostly see to the client, 'cause you're right, they are paying the bill. They have a way of doing it. And I do have total respect for the fact that most often they know the brand a lot better than I do.'cause they spend their whole week workday, work week looking at this content, dealing with this brand, creating most of the stuff. And I am the team member who is, pitching in. Having respect for that while at the same time knowing my own worth and authority as somebody who's worked in the business for a long time, and I find they're even, they're also open to that. I think as long as you have the. Right attitude of being a team player. Like they're open to I, do work a lot with colleges, universities, and I'm always saying, oh, I work for actually another college and in their magazine, here's how they do things. And so I think they appreciate when I'm able to pass along a tip or some kind of strategy that maybe they weren't thinking about, but I cross over so I can pass along some best practices that could be equally helpful to them.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 26:27

That's fantastic. I love that so much. And you know a lot about the history of magazines. I know you mentioned that you studied journalism and one of your first jobs in your twenties was at a magazine. And tell me about this research. I know you have your PhD. Tell me about your scholarly work. And studying like the history of these Canadian magazines and how that work informs your business, your freelance business.

Dr. Suzanne Bowness: 26:53

I'm rarely asked to speak about it anymore, and I'm always excited to talk about the history of magazine. So in Canada, obviously, we inherit a lot of our magazine history from Britain and then from the us, right? So I studied those, the history of the development of those magazines, and then realize that there's a. Great opportunity in Canada to look into the archives that not much work had been done there. I did my master's thesis actually on the history of the magazine that I had been working at, and I had started that before we folded and it had folded a few times over the years, but it had been going for a long time, since 1887. Wow. And so I knew there was a rich history and so I decided to write. My master's thesis on the history it was called the magazine's called Saturday Night. And I wrote about the history of the magazine under its first editor. And he was a editor for the first 20 years or so. And so really interesting to go back in those archives and look at the microfilm and that kind of thing. And so did, wrote a general history that way. And then that sparked my interest in writing about more magazines because there's so many early Canadian magazines and they haven't been, explored that much because the archive is pretty scant. The thing about magazines is that they're not meant to be kept. They're meant to be thrown in the recycle boxes today, right? And so we don't have a very great archive. Some of them, like later when the industry became more developed, we have a few more in there. I decided to do a. Sort of overview study from the beginning. So the first Canadian magazine was published in Halifax in 1789 and yeah, before our confederation even. And through the 18 hundreds there were a few magazines here and there calling out in the wilderness kind of thing.'cause Canada was pretty frontier like back then. And then by the time. So that moved the industry moved to Montreal and then to Toronto where it has stayed ever since and. Grew up and in the 1870s to 1890s when there wasn't that much more other media magazines were a big deal. They were the place where you read your fiction. There were place where you got to talk about the news of the day and everything. So lots of really interesting magazines both in all of. The markets in Britain and the US and Canada. So I looked at magazines from the beginning in 1789 to the end of 1900, and just looked at the ways in Canada, particularly the ways that the editors helped to, like what were they doing in terms of shaping a Canadian culture and creating the creating the opportunities for writers. So often it was interesting in the magazines, they would have direct feedback for writers printed in the magazine because how else would you give feedback to an anonymous writer who might have put their suspicion over the transom to be, published and type, set and printed. And so it would say things like Ms. Smith, your contribution is, accepted, but next time don't be so wordy. And so yeah, direct. That's totally not a quote that's I love that would unique example, but yeah. That, yeah. But anyways, so it was like, so between the lines of all these comments, you can give a sense of how they were trying to encourage new writers and, then encourage the connection between cultural development and. National development and that kind of thing. So it's, it was quite interesting to go through and be able to find different magazines that were making this point and then connect it connect it together and look at how these feisty editors were really trying to create the magazine, not knowing how many issues they could keep it going for, but just moving along. So I really enjoyed seeing how these early, pioneers were trying to create this cultural co content on behalf of what I'm sure was a challenging living at the time. Both in smaller towns and in earlier times and that kind of thing. So that was really interesting. I have to say, in terms of the practical benefits to my career and that kind of thing, it's mostly been that I've I learned to teach when I was. And, got the opportunity to teach. Even when I was doing the PhD, I was teaching my own full courses, which is credit to my university. That's not always the case. And so I got to be able to do that. I took a couple of courses on how to teach, which I find not completely intuitive and. So learned some basics of curriculum development and pedagogy and that kind of thing. So that was really useful. And then I guess in terms of the thesis, it's been really useful to learn how to put a book together. So you know, both with my Master's thesis, which is just over a hundred pages. And then my PhD thesis was around just over 300 pages. Like to how to, figure out how to structure a book like that and how to incorporate everything and do the research and that kind of thing has been really useful. Me means that I'm able to write a book and I've done that a couple of times now. So before the feisty freelancer I wrote a book as a ghost writer. And so to get that project I was able to pitch that project saying that, yeah, I, here's the evidence that I've already put together these long works and organized them and figured out how to make. Some less dry and more interesting and and just put those together. So I, feel like the thesis also gave me that ability to know how to put together a, long project and I'd like to write more long projects, more books, and so figure that out.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 32:47

So cool. That's so cool. Thanks. Both like the history of, and just how these magazines were reflecting culture, but also shaping culture. That's really cool. And then this idea that you learned how to teach because that is a skill that, that so many people think like they have a body of knowledge in one area. One topic, one vertical or industry that they can communicate that. In a way that someone else can learn it and, get the information and feel good about it. And that's just not the case. And I've seen it so much. Even with friends, when I was studying journalism and they were studying like, I dunno, engineering or something, I remember that a lot of them had these really decorated professors who were so smart and knew their science or their math inside out, but just could not get back to a level one to understand. This is where we begin with this topic. This is how I showcase it and communicate it to someone who's never, who's learning it for the first time. It's that is such a skill. Not everybody can do that. And the fact that you know that and how to develop curriculum, that's really exciting. I think that's something that, that I know not a lot of people know how to do, but there's a lot of people creating things and teaching things and maybe could be more effective if they knew like that science, like how, to actually teach something.

Dr. Suzanne Bowness: 34:17

It was really interesting and I got to use those skills in that. After I graduated with my PhD, I helped to develop a writing program in which I did create a program that's two semesters of classes plus a semester of internship, and create all the learning outcomes for the program. And then for. Courses individually figure out like what, do these students get to learn, need to learn, need to know in our profession and, that kind of thing. So that really helped there in terms of making that a reality. And yeah, it was really valuable and actually just teaching helps to. Figure out how to communicate with clients, like as a writer, you know how to tell them why you did something when you're creating a document or I found I was I knew grammar well enough to say that's wrong or That's right. But teaching and, telling somebody how to identify a. Place really makes you go hard on how to identify yourself and how to articulate what it looks like kind of thing. So it was, a learning curve for me doing that, both in terms of the content as well as the presentation. But yeah, I think it's a skill that you can work on and it was something that I could see as being pretty valuable in a lot of areas of my, both in terms of becoming a teacher and then also in terms of my business.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 35:38

That's so cool. I'm thinking when you were talking about writing that the curriculum for the new writers and writing those, that two part course, what would you tell, when you look back at your career and everything that you've learned from your career, what would, what advice would you give to Sue in your one? What's something that a lot of young or new, I shouldn't say young, new freelancers get wrong.

Dr. Suzanne Bowness: 36:03

I was really lucky when I started out. So I was laid off and which meant that I qualified for employment insurance and there was a program that I used that was eight weeks of business courses. So I was lucky to take that. It was in a a cohort of people starting all sorts of different kinds of businesses and so we just worked together to learn like what's in an invoice, how do you write a business plan, and that kind of thing. So I think I got a. A leg up in learning those skills and and at the same time we had a business coach to get us started and that kind of thing. So I think like just having that regular, ensuring that you seek out supports like that, whether it's like finding an online course, whether it's finding a group of friends that you wanna start, get started with to keep. Each other accountable and that kind of thing. I think I was fine because I was really motivated to start my business, but the thing that I do give as advice mostly because I see people hesitating so much, just get everything perfect in their business before just starting. Yes. So both in the book and in person, I. Encourage people to just get started. If you wanna start a business tomorrow, send your first pitch out tomorrow, or your first exploratory email to connect with somebody, or your first LinkedIn connection kind of thing. Don't wait until your website looks great, or your LinkedIn profile's perfect and that kind of thing. Do enough to seem professional register your professional email address maybe. Do, put something cursory up as your LinkedIn profile and that kind of thing, but don't wait for weeks and weeks to just make sure it's perfect and send the draft around to everybody. I even say I'm a big fan of how writers creating websites for themselves, so they control their image online and that kind of thing. But I, I said that can be like a six months from now project. Start with your LinkedIn profile. Use that as your website. Site and get out there because like you're testing and just start. And don't be afraid of it. And do your business activities in tandem. If you feel like you need to start get a bookkeeper or start doing your books and that kind of thing, do that. But at the same time, be working on what your core business is, getting writing and editing projects and clients because you need to start making an income, and that's priority number one. So do that in tandem with all the other things.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 38:21

That's such good advice. That's such good advice. I am a recovering perfectionist and I don't know if it's related to our work too. Like we, we are taught not to make factors and make sure we get the facts right and our grammar needs to be we don't wanna misspelling, like our credibility is, takes a hit when we, especially if we get something wrong. And, but that's, I think that can. Translate into a challenge sometimes when we're thinking about business, because then we do want everything to be perfect. And I feel like in business you're right, just go I remember a startup weekend, like a business weekend thing. And I had volunteered with it and that was the first time I heard the term minimum viable product, MVP, which was basically like. Let's just get it good enough that we can talk to people about it. And I had never been exposed to that idea. And I think that kind of what you're saying, get something that's good enough, that's professional enough, but you don't have to build the whole ecosystem just to get started. And actually, I was through a SJA, I remember I was looking at some clips from one of the other writers and I noticed that she just, she had a very nice Google doc. And then she just had links listed that were hyperlinked to her clips and that was her portfolio. And I feel like there's so many writers who are thinking, do I need a website to host my clips? Or they get bogged down into, okay, which service provider should I use to showcase my work? And then. Meanwhile here, there are writers who are paying their bills and being in really great bylines, like really significant publications with a simple Google doc with their, with just hyperlinks organized by type and they're doing just fine. So I think we can definitely overthink that part a lot.

Dr. Suzanne Bowness: 40:14

Totally. Yeah. I'm lucky not to be a perfectionist, and so I'm always encountering it in my students and I'm like, you're not gonna be a perfectionist for long if you start falling behind in your rent, kind of thing. Yes. It's really encouraging them to be like, I'm like, deadlines will fix that. And encouraging them to be even it, it sounds cheeky or subversive, but I'm like, could you maybe hand that in at 90% instead of I'm like, no don't drop to a 60. But if you, could hand it in 90% and, save the other 10 hours you're gonna spend on increasing it to 95, maybe do that. Yeah.'cause like you'll have a much more balanced life. You can move on to other assignments and that kind of thing, and your editor's gonna help you to work on that story if leave room for the editor in a way. Get it as perfect as you can, but please don't stress yourself out, burn yourself out by trying to get that extra 5% when you know, like it's okay to hand in a first draft that it's at 90%.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 41:19

I agree. And chances are I would be the person to try to like, spend the extra 10 hours, try to get from 92 to a hundred or near. Yeah. Only to be told I have a different take. Our preferences are this, so it isn't worth it because you are gonna get feedback even if in your eyes. It's like the best thing since sliced cheese. They're gonna say, we prefer this and it's nothing personal, but you're right. There's so much energy and gnashing of our teeth wasted on trying to be perfect and we're never gonna be perfect. Yeah, I love this book. I wanna talk next about the feisty freelancer. I'm about halfway through and I'm really enjoying it. Do you have a favorite chapter, a favorite section that you really enjoy when you were writing this?

Dr. Suzanne Bowness: 42:12

Yeah, I really liked, there's a couple that I like writing, and then there's a couple that I think are the places people will go back to, and so I really liked writing the sections on how to read, like a writer, how to write a pitch and how to write an article because it was. Fun to articulate and break down the things that I do in my business on a daily basis. And really I wrote the first draft and then I went, oh yeah, I forgot to add in. You should do a fact check. And then I forgot to add in that you should make sure that you interview a diversity of people such that your article seems balanced and that kind of thing. So I, I think building those chapters was fun and thinking, really thinking through stuff that I do on a daily basis. And I did. A little bit in terms of on those topics in terms of teaching. I teach a, course where I've an assignment is how to write an article, so I've done that before, but just putting it down in, in writing is, I think was interesting and, fun to do, coming up with examples and all that. And I think in terms of like places that people will find useful. In consults. I think like the chapters on working with editors and clients is useful for people. And then also on productivity.'cause those are the two topics that I get a lot of questions from former students on. And I'm always like, once you've been my student, feel free to. Connect with me anytime and I'm pretty open, even random people walking off the street for advice kind of thing, because I want to make sure that they have what they need to be successful. But yeah, I find people are always asking about productivity and that always asking about those editor relationships. And frankly, that's the question I'm always asking my editorial friends about oh, I have this client, how do I deal with this? And, does this happen to you? And so those are places where I think information sharing can be really helpful. So I hope the information sharing there reassures people in terms of what it's like to work with clients and the good and the bad and, how to handle and navigate that piece of your being in business.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 44:20

That's so good. So what's next for you? Are you working on other exciting projects right now or do you have other things connected to with the book that we should watch out for?

Dr. Suzanne Bowness: 44:32

I'm just trying to get the book out there and so I'm connecting with writing programs and just trying to have, get people aware that there's a new book here. And and hopefully it's helpful. I've been doing some talks at writing programs doing some podcasts like this one. I still before I wrote the book, I had been posting online courses, so it's. Still developing that six week course in terms of how to become a freelancer. And so basically getting the content out there in a different format on Zoom and sharing that with with people. And so continue to do that. And I've been getting some nice feedback in terms of people who have been using it and like I had a former student say to me last week, oh, I'm in the marketing chapter. I'm going like, bit by bit trying to say okay, yes, I'm doing that. No, I need to improve on that, and stuff like that. So it's really gratifying to hear from people when they find that piece useful. And so just. Thinking about ways to continue getting it out there, I think is what I have planned for the book. And then thinking about what other books I would write.'cause I do the process and and I've done it a few times now of putting together a book. Right now I'm writing a novel and so I've been doing that for a few years. That might be my next thing. I got to find the time for that. And and then I'd, love to write something else around the feisty. Brand. So thinking about what that could be and will probably be my next thing in the nonfiction realm.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 46:02

That is so cool. Can you tell us a little bit about the novel?

Dr. Suzanne Bowness: 46:05

Oh sure. It's it's a literary fiction about a single character moving through her life. And it's hard to talk about specifics, but yeah, it's, I'm having fun, trying to figure out the character and, get to know and really thinking, again, same way as nonfiction. I think harder than nonfiction, you're trying to think of what will the structure be, what will be most satisfying for the reader and all the same questions come up but I'm a big reader and. So I'm both intimidated by and encouraged by reading other books, and so just trying to figure out, like almost studying other books to figure out like the ways that I can I'm working on my second draft, like how ways I can improve and make clear and make more interesting and everything the, story that I'm trying to tell.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 47:00

That is so cool, Sue. Yeah, I love that so much because I think that, I think a lot of writers freelancers, we make our money, our living through writing for other people, but it's so wonderful to be able to still carve time and protect time for our own projects. And I think writing. I've never tried to write fiction. I think I think my creativity has been zapped I think I've been like overtrained in how to write. Like first for newspapers and then like for business. And so creating something from imagination like that is, so that's intimidating to me, but I think that so many people in our community will be inspired by, that to hear about your work, being able to do both types of writing. That's, really cool.

Dr. Suzanne Bowness: 47:52

To be honest, it is tiring in terms of Hey, what do I wanna do after writing in my business from nine to five sure isn't writing all the time. So it's true. Carving out time, finding the time and finding the enthusiasm again for it makes it a little bit slower. But yeah, it's something I've always been interested in. And when I was growing up, I was never dreaming of writing like annual reports kind of thing. I was dreaming of writing what I read. Yeah, still have that in me to think of writing something like a novel, like I grew up reading kind of thing. So yeah. Anyways it's fun. Sometime I'll have, make time for it and it'll be out hopefully.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 48:33

Yeah, I love that. So where can people get their own copy of the feisty freelancer and catch up with you online too and keep, abreast with what you're working on?

Dr. Suzanne Bowness: 48:44

Yeah, so I keep everything at that. Feisty freelancer.com. Okay. Anyone who knows me and knows I like to make websites for all my projects and then just be able to link everybody from there. Feisty freelancer.com is where you can find links to buy the book on Amazon or on indigo. I link to my Instagram. I'm not a big Instagrammer, but I created one from the book for the book and tried to show it on its journey. So there's pictures there, and then also whatever events and talks and podcasts I'm doing. So whenever this gets posted, I'll definitely post that on feisty freelancer.com and everybody can check that out too.

Ashley Cisneros Mejia: 49:26

Thank you so much, Sue. I'll be sure to include your links in the show notes to this. So anybody listening, check the show notes for links to the book and get your copy. If you're watching on YouTube, I'll have it in the description and you can click and get your copy that way too. Thank you so much, Sue. This has been so much fun getting to speak with you and learn about your journey and get inspired. I really appreciate it.

Dr. Suzanne Bowness: 49:49

Thanks. I really appreciate being here.

Speaker 2: 49:52

And with that, we've come to the end of another episode. Please make sure you hit subscribe and give me a five star review on your favorite podcast app. Check out the show notes and grab my free guide to help you diversify your freelance business. It's called. If you do this, try that 220 plus smart ways to diversify your freelance services. Until next time, this is Ashley Cisneros Mejia. Don't forget, we all get this one precious life. Don't constrain yourself to a box that you were never meant to fit in. It is your right to profit from your own creative gifts. Our music was composed by Donna Raphael of World Instrumentals Talk. Freelance to me is a product of Phoenix Creative Studio.